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Podcast S14E02

Large-scale storage of green hydrogen

Large-scale storage of green hydrogen
In this episode, Jon discusses with Germain Hurtado, Hydrogen Project Director at Storengy and Rob Bloom, hydrogen expert at Delta-EE, how green hydrogen can be stored at scale in salt caverns. Focusing on the Hypster project in France, Jon and the guests explore how this can provide a buffer between production and demand, as well as opening up opportunities for hydrogen to be an answer to the growing need for long-duration storage.

Episode transcript

[00:00:05.110] - Jon

Hello and welcome to the episode. You'll recognise that in the future, with much more renewable energy and much more electrification, flexibility and storage are going to be needed in ever increasing amounts. Most listeners, you also know that clean hydrogen is set to play an important role in the energy transition, although still with plenty of debate about exactly what roles hydrogen plays and how important those roles are. But today's episode is about the overlap between these two areas, storing hydrogen in large quantities to provide part of the storage and flexibility that the energy transition will need. So to explore this, let's say hello to my two guests. First of all, Germain Hurtado, Hydrogen Projects Director at Storengy, which is a part of ENGIE the big energy company. Hello, Germain. Thanks very much for joining us. Now, in the brief introduction I gave you, I mentioned ENGIE. Many of our listeners will know about ENGIE, but I suspect not that many will have heard of Storengy. So can you give us a snapshot of Storengy, please?


[00:01:18.470] - Germain

Storengy one of the world leaders in underground natural gas storage. Storengy has 70 years of experience. We design, develop and operate storage facility. And also we are developing innovative solution. I will discuss that later. The company owns 21 natural gas storage site with a total capacity of 136 terawatt hour in France, Germany and the United Kingdom. And we are also a key player in renewable gases -  biomethane, hydrogen, syngas and also in geothermal energy power generation, heat cold productions.


[00:02:02.150] - Jon

Okay, so you've got a lot of experience at doing things underground, be it geothermal, be it storing gas underground, and a lot of experience with managing gases, be they natural gas or renewable gases.


[00:02:17.390] - Germain

Yes, exactly. This is what we do. We're also a member of France Hydrogen and Hydrogen Europe. We have projects in hydrogen.


[00:02:27.910] - Jon

Yeah. Okay. And that's your role, I imagine, is driving forward your activity with hydrogen.


[00:02:33.110] - Germain

Yes, exactly. And one of the project that galvanises the safety, not the safety, but the thinking for hydrogen is HyPSTER project. So if you give me time, I will explain what the acronym HyPSTER stands for.


[00:02:47.210] - Jon

Go on then. How did well, HyPSTER, I like the word and it's my favourite project name that I've come across in the energy transition. If in other languages hipster means the same thing. But hipster in English refers to a type of person. And I'm going to now defer to Rob, who is a lot younger than me, to give him Rob. Can you explain to listeners what hipster means in English?


[00:03:14.190] - Rob

I can certainly try, Jon. Hipster is somebody who would be at the cutting edge of fashion of culture almost to their detriment, some might say. In some cases it can be a slightly derogatory term, but always tongue in cheek. So I love the fact that, like you say, Jon, it's probably one of the best high based project names that I've seen so far.


[00:03:45.270] - Jon

Thanks Rob. Far better put than I could ever describe, which probably tells everyone that I'm a million miles from being a hipster myself. Germain, why HyPSTER then what is it? Explain the project title to us.


[00:03:59.940] - Germain

Yes, thank you. So first of all, yes, HyPSTER say the same in French. I think it's worldwide and HyPSTER means hydrogen pilot for storage for large ecosystem replication. So this is the acronym. So we are little bit far from the first definition. The demonstrator is a flagship project of the development of green hydrogen and underground storage in Europe. Okay, so what we do on HyPSTER project with the help of seven partners, we are going to study and demonstrate the technical feasibility of the replicability of production and storage of hydrogen based on the supply of renewable energy, which has never been done before.


[00:04:44.510] - Jon

Okay, so producing hydrogen from electrolysis and then storing that at the same site or  are you transporting the hydrogen from the electrolyzer to the storage?


[00:04:56.020] - Germain

Exactly the first one. So we are going to have the production of hydrogen on surface and we are going to store 200 metres the hydrogen into an underground storage. So maybe. Can I explain how we do it?


[00:05:14.670] - Jon

Let's come to that in a minute. Germain, I'd like to introduce Rob. But last question for now. In a nutshell, what happens to the hydrogen once it's been stored, what's it being used for?


[00:05:26.870] - Germain

So with the hydrogen that we are going to store, we are going to simulate the injection of renewable energy. So what we are going to do is to produce hydrogen based on the renewable energy. One part of that, this hydrogen will be injected into a salt cavern where we are going to perform 100 tests along three months to demonstrate the feasibility of underground hydrogen storage based on the intermittency of renewable energy. So we will act as a battery mainly. And this technological bricks is missing today in the value chain of hydrogen. This has never been tested.


[00:06:14.930] - Jon

Okay. And then after it's stored, will it be used in, for example, buses or putting it into the gas network or using the hydrogen in industry?


[00:06:26.250] - Germain

Yes. So at the moment we are going to produce on the surface 100 tonnes per year of hydrogen. Partially. The production of this hydrogen on surface will be exactly sell to industry that want to reduce the carbon organise the industry because they're using hydrogen already, but which is not a green hydrogen.


[00:06:51.600] - Jon



[00:06:52.500] - Germain

And secondly, there are some market that is growing it's the hydrogen refuelling stations and they will have needs to get backup hydrogen and we are ready to provide this backup hydrogen through our underground hydrogen storage. And this is what we are going to demonstrate through the HyPSTER project.


[00:07:15.030] - Jon

Fascinating. Yeah. I can't wait to ask you some more questions and hear a bit more, Germain, but let's say hello, first of all to Rob Bloom, who as well as being able to describe the term what hipster means is also a hydrogen expert here at Delta-EE. Hello, Rob.


[00:07:32.750] - Rob

Hi there, Jon. Hi Germain.


[00:07:33.590] - Jon

Rob, before we dive further into the HyPSTER project, I'd like to just bring out the context of the hydrogen value chain, which Germain has described a bit already. Can you just build on what Germain talked about? And for our listeners who may not be so familiar with hydrogen, just share how you characterise the value chain or the different forms of value chain could take. Yeah.


[00:08:01.070] - Rob

So the way we approach the clean hydrogen value chain at Delta-EE is really to split it into four primary sectors or divisions, I suppose. And when you look at the value chain for hydrogen, typically it will start with producing that hydrogen in a low carbon manner, whether that's via electrolysis and renewable electricity or using methane as a feedstock and capturing any carbon from that process. So you start off with production, then you need to get that clean hydrogen to wherever it's needed. So then things like storage and distribution come into the picture and then finally you'll end with utilisation. So where that clean hydrogen is used, what's the end use? So that was extremely high level there, Jon. Is that enough detail? Should I flesh it out a bit more?


[00:08:56.000] - Jon

Well, I guess it can take many forms. We've got one example of that that Germain gave very briefly. Could you give us one other example of what that value chain might look like?


[00:09:08.810] - Rob

Yeah. So to contrast, maybe the value chain that Germain talked about, which was renewable electricity, electrolyzer storage, and then to industry and transport, a really kind of a value chain that might contrast strongly with that is if you had a large scale industrial hydrogen user. So let's say ammonia production is a really good example for this. An ammonia plant has a demand of hundreds of thousands of tonnes of hydrogen a year. So a really contrasting value chain might be a big blue hydrogen production plant. So that's methane and carbon capture fueling that industrial process. And because the production of that plant is very easily controlled, you only really need the production and utilisation, the distribution and storage is less needed in that value chain, for instance.


[00:10:08.370] - Jon

Okay, so hydrogen can take the value chain, connect lots of different forms in different applications. And I think we need many of those different types of value chains for hydrogen to play the role that we need it to in the transition.


[00:10:24.170] - Rob

Couldn't agree more.


[00:10:27.590] - Jon

Germain, let's come back to your project a bit now and bring it to life a bit now. I visited a salt cavern. I've only once actually seen a salt cavern and that was in Romania and it wasn't being used for gas storage, it was a tourist attraction. So it'd been a salt mine and the size of it was absolutely staggering. You went underground, there was a Ferris wheel like you see a fairground, a boating lake, a restaurant and loads more in the salt cabin. So that open my eyes to how big salt caverns can be. But can you tell us a bit about your salt cavern, how big is it and how deep is it or bring that to life a bit for us.


[00:11:07.570] - Germain

Okay, so there are differences, you know, I think you have visited the Salina Turda in Romania, near the city of Cluj. It's a very different cavity. Salina Turda was constructed in the 17th century, I think. At Etrez site which is located between Lyon and Geneva. Yeah. We are developing our project, HyPSTER on an industrial cavern that has 40 years only of existence. And what we are going to do is to convert this cavern. So storage that could be used actually for natural gas into hydrogen storage. So at Etrez site we have a different type of cavity. Mainly we have two different type of cavity. So to start, because this is a feasibility study and demonstration, a pilot phase, we are going to convert a very small cavity which is on the upper layer of the salt layers. So this cavity, we know it very well. For the past 40 years we made a lot of experience in it. The volume is only 8000 cubic metres, so it can store 44 tonnes of hydrogen. So between 60 bars to 165 bars. So it's a very small cavity. Normally at Etrez site where we are developing the project, we have much more bigger cavern.


[00:12:43.270] - Germain

So the normal size for our cavern over there are 770,000 cubic metres.


[00:12:50.990] - Jon

That 770,000 against the 8000 for the HyPSTER project.


[00:12:55.510] - Germain

Yes, exactly. So it's huge compare and it can store, it will store in the future more than 6000 tonnes of hydrogen and the pressure could be much more higher and 240 bars. Just to give you an example, on this huge cavity, we can store a sky scraper from the city in London, for instance, just to give you the dimension.


[00:13:22.040] - Jon

Wow. Yeah, I was thinking of the small one, 8000 cubic metres, that's like 80 metres times ten metres times ten metres for example. So relatively small. Rob, chatting to you before. I know you were telling me that hydrogen has been stored in salt caverns before.


[00:13:44.030] - Rob

Yes. So actually there's a number of kind of salt caverns being used for hydrogen storage today. But as Germain talked about earlier, these are typically used for industrial processes around petroleum refinery ammonia production, where these stores are likely to be used in a very different way, the intermittency of wind. And when you're storing and withdrawing hydrogen from these caverns, I assume Germain, is going to be a very different use case to the hydrogen salt caverns that are in operation today.


[00:14:24.090] - Germain

Yes, exactly. I think worldwide six storage of blue hydrogen today. And so they don't have frequent cycling because they don't cycle hydrogen based on the intermittency of electricity, but more of the needs of the petrochemical industry, which is flat.


[00:14:46.550] - Jon

Okay, so what are the specific things that you're looking to test the HyPSTER project? What are the key learning points or the key things you're hoping to better understand about storing hydrogen in the project? Hydrogen in the cavern.


[00:15:01.080] - Germain

Okay. So as I mentioned, we are going to develop a brick, technological brick. And so we are going to study the feasibility of that project. There are many challenges to this because we have to adapt our existing model in geomechanics, thermodynamic from natural gas to hydrogen storage. We have also to qualify equipment suitable for hydrogen. Today, they are surface equipment for hydrogen, but we are developing also subsurface equipment in order to ensure a safe cycling. So we have done different strategic partnerships, one with Schneider Electric, for the electricity instrumentation automation, and another one more technological partnership with TechnipFMC for the wellhead, for instance.


[00:15:57.530] - Rob

So I have a follow up question, Germain, about the kind of utilisation of the salt cavern in this project, specifically in the HyPSTER project, this small cavern you're talking about, and then for the larger cavern as well. You said that when using it with green hydrogen, you're expecting to be cycling the cavern a lot. I assume that means you're very frequently going to be putting hydrogen in and taking it out of the cavern. Is that correct?


[00:16:27.040] - Germain

Yes, that's correct. And we are performing some computation right now to understand how it will be in the future. We are strategically located in the Chemical Valley of France near Lyon, and we want to address the high value chemicals industry over there. That's why we're expecting also to have no requirement but a lot of needs in this value for green hydrogen in the future.


[00:17:00.290] - Rob

So one further question on that. How does the size of the cavern affect how you use it in a very big store cavern? Does it become then very difficult to do this high cycling or is that easier in a small cavern?


[00:17:16.490] - Germain

No, I think it's more not based on the size of the cavern, because we can cycle hydrogen into bigger caverns. We are doing that with natural gas for the last 70 years and for the last 40 years in Etrez. So it's more a question of supply and off taker today, there's not much off taker for the moment. So we address firstly the hydrogen refilling stations. But in the future, we want to transport this hydrogen directly to the first industry, consumer. So you mention them earlier. This could be steel industry, chemical industry or ammonia industry.


[00:18:03.410] - Jon

Germain. A lot of the gas sector is interested in either blending hydrogen or putting 100% hydrogen into existing gas infrastructure. And I can imagine some of our listeners will be thinking, well, your company, Storengy, knows a huge amount about storing natural gas in caverns. You talked a bit about the instrumentation needed for working with hydrogen rather than natural gas. But fundamentally, is it the same thing using a salt cavern for hydrogen as the natural gas or are there real fundamental differences about the different nature of hydrogen compared to natural gas?


[00:18:47.100] - Germain

Yeah, there are fundamental differences. First of all, the equipment - hydrogen is very light gas. It can go from on the Earth to the atmosphere. It's the number one hydrogen. So you have to select suitable equipment materials in order to avoid any leaks. So there is a huge attention to the safety part of hydrogen to handle hydrogen. And we have experienced about 70 years in gas. So we think we are the right people to address this point. Also, the storage of gas is seasonal. So in summer, you will inject natural gas into salt cavity, and in winter, you will withdraw gas to be used for the heating system, for the industrial needs for different usage. With hydrogen, it's totally different. We are thinking that the cycling will be more often and the needs will be totally different regarding the production on our facility and storage.


[00:20:06.010] - Jon

So you could have like three days of really windy weather. The storage could get full. Then with hydrogen, you could then have a week or two with very little wind. So you could have that cycling operating on a weekly basis even.


[00:20:19.730] - Germain

Yes. And we are thinking for Etrez but each project is different, but we are thinking to produce to fill chip trailers for UHS stations and Meanwhile to store hydrogen into salt cavern and to offer backup solution for industry. We need it totally. Yes. It's a different use.


[00:20:46.270] - Jon

Okay. The other question I think listeners might have is how many salt caverns are there? So is it a case? We need another solution and we're lucky if we have a salt cavern nearby or how widespread is the opportunity for storing hydrogen in salt caverns?


[00:21:06.950] - Germain

So salt cabins are not everywhere. That's one of the points. You have also cavity for aquifer cavity and depleted cavity as well. But the salt cavern is the most suitable storage for hydrogen because you get a very clean hydrogen when you withdraw the hydrogen, there are not much contamination. This is something we will look at in situ if we have any issues with bacteria, for instance, and H2S gas, and you can slide more often into salt cavern, this is less difficult than depleted or aquifer first storage.


[00:21:51.410] - Jon

Okay. Like in France, how many salt caverns or opportunities for storing hydrogen salt caverns are we talking like a few or five or ten or 20 or 50 or 100?


[00:22:05.560] - Germain

So regarding Storengy, we own 21 natural gas storage site in France, which is capacity of 136 terrawatt hours in French, Germany, and the United Kingdom, which is quite huge.


[00:22:21.560] - Jon

Yeah. Okay. So it could be a very big battery effectively.


[00:22:25.710] - Germain

Yes, exactly.


[00:22:27.270] - Jon



[00:22:28.150] - Rob

Just working off that question. Germain, does hydrogen well, two questions. At what point is a salt cavern the right size to store hydrogen? So for hydrogen refuelling station today, they'll typically have pressure vessels, metal tanks that store hydrogen. At what point do you have to go from those tanks to some form of underground storage and then is there any competitor to those two salt cavern as an underground storage?


[00:22:59.730] - Germain

It's a very good question actually because the difference between the salt cavern and the UHS or pressure vessel tanks that will store the hydrogen is the capacity. In fact on the surface you can store only few tonnes of hydrogen. Then after you may have issues with the permitting and with the safety. But regarding the storage underground you can store a huge quantity of hydrogen. We mentioned with our capacity at Etrez a normal cavern can store up to more than 6000 tonnes of hydrogen. So it's not really comparable and we address other needs.


[00:23:46.210] - Jon

What other projects are you working on Germain at the moment, your hydrogen projects director for Storengy? Is this the focus of all your activity or are there other things that you're developing or trialling or testing at the moment?


[00:24:00.820] - Germain

So today we are working on different conversion of hydrogen storage. We have different projects in Europe. We have two more in France. So we have the HyGreen Provence project which is a huge project for us. And the second - so it's in the south like the name Provence - and the second is Stock Green. It's another project in the northeast of France. We are also looking to develop one project in UK called ICQ on an existing facility and another project in Germany called SaltHy - Hy for hydrogen. And in parallel we perform studies for future hydrogen storage operator in Europe and outside of Europe. Our ambition thanks to the HyPSTER project is to develop the pipeline of project that we have and that I mentioned but also to be a leader in the underground hydrogen storage.


[00:25:02.630] - Jon

So you're a busy man at the moment then?


[00:25:04.990] - Germain

Yes, we have a lot of work going on. Yeah.


[00:25:08.350] - Jon

But does it feel like being on the leading edge or the cutting edge of the sector?


[00:25:16.310] - Germain

Yes. So we feel that there is a movement change that we now have requests to store hydrogen into salt caverns. It was not the case a year ago. And yes, I think the market is picking up slowly but surely.


[00:25:36.870] - Jon

Would you describe it as a push market or is it becoming a pull market? So are you still having to work hard to get each new project off the ground or are you now starting to get lots of people coming to you with ideas that want you to be part of new projects and ideas?


[00:25:59.370] - Germain

Yeah, people are coming to us actually. The HyPSTER project is a flagship project for the storage of renewable energy. Clearly we act as a battery and we are the first project worldwide. I mean even countries like China or write article about HyPSTER project. We have been also contacted by North America, Canada, Gulf of Texas as well. And also we are in contact with the Middle East. So a lot of focus is on us. And that's why we have to make this project successful, because this is the first project and we have to demonstrate that this is possible.


[00:26:45.650] - Rob

So when can we look forward to the results Germain?


[00:26:50.820] - Germain

So the result will be presented in end of 2023. So the project is a very short project. It's only three years. So 2001 was the engineering, 2021 was the engineering. 2022 is the construction phase. Actually, we ambition to start in April this year to construct the surface facility to produce hydrogen on the surface and to modify the existing salt cavern. In 2023, March, we are going to produce the first bubble of hydrogen at Etrez site and we are going to start the cycling. So the first bubble will be in March 2023 and the cycling will start in April 2023. And we have to get all the results by 2024 in order to scale up Etrez site for hydrogen storage, but also manual to develop our other projects. So it's quite challenging.


[00:28:06.190] - Jon

Rob, I just want to come back to the value chain that we talked about at the beginning and then both. we'll get the Talking New Energy crystal ball out. Rob, the value chain. One of the challenges I see here is you've got to get every piece in the hydrogen value chain is challenging. So storage just one aspect we've talked about the challenges. There the production, the cost of electrolyzers, developing blue hydrogen projects, the utilisation, heavy goods vehicles running on hydrogen industry. Well, maybe converting from grey to green is easy or great to blue, but changing their processes to run on hydrogen, it seems to me each element of this is hard, but getting them all moving forward at the same time is really where the challenge lies. If this market or the sector is going to develop.


[00:29:00.790] - Rob

Yeah, 100%. Jon, I think that's one of the biggest challenges with the hydrogen or one of the biggest challenges for hydrogen playing a role in the energy system is that we're building from effectively nothing. The hydrogen market today serves industry. It's a captive market. There's no commodity trading. And we've got to move from that to a really well developed system where producers can produce the hydrogen, take it to where it needs to be. So for me, that's the biggest challenge with hydrogen. I don't think you can highlight any one sector. We've got to build this all from the ground up. And one of the phrases that I'm sure anyone in the clean hydrogen sector is sick to death of is the chicken and egg problem. What comes first, demand or supply. And I think if I were to characterise what the market is doing today, we're now starting to see projects really try and link those up. The most successful, the largest projects, the biggest projects today are being really successful at securing their offtakers before they put the hydrogen in. That's a challenge, but that's where we are today.


[00:30:10.430] - Jon

I think lots of parts of the jigsaw have to come together at the same time.


[00:30:15.020] - Rob

Very much so.


[00:30:15.720] - Germain



[00:30:18.370] - Jon

Let's get the Talking New Energy crystal ball out and I'm going to set the dial today to ten years time, 2032. Germain, Rob, I like to ask each of you to paint a picture of where hydrogen storage and salt caverns is likely to be in ten years. So if we're at the first demonstration feasibility phase today go forward ten years with a crystal ball, what will things look like then? Germain, let's start with you.


[00:30:48.910] - Germain

Okay. So in ten years from now, we'll have to respond to the ambitious goal set up by the European Commission to decarbonise the large part of the economy. And this is a challenge that we have to tackle. So clean hydrogen displaced fossil fuels in some end use, and we can see that already there are discussions for the mobility. Also, we were discussing about ammonia, green ammonia production, steel and chemicals. So hydrogen storage could be become increasingly critical to energy security, just like natural gas storage is today in many regions.


[00:31:31.690] - Jon

Sorry, carry on.


[00:31:33.110] - Germain

And the differences between natural gas and hydrogen, as you have noticed, is that natural gas is stored mostly to meet seasonal variation in the month. And this hydrogen demand, in contrast, is likely to be more constant, at least in the early years of the hydrogen market to the scale up when the bulk of the month is likely to come from industrial customer, primarilyy steel, ammonia and high value chemicals. So storing I would say that we are ready to tackle on these challenges and we believe that hydrogen storage will be a key asset today. Developing HyPSTER project will help us to become a leader in ten years.


[00:32:16.930] - Jon

So might you have converted some of those 21 gas storage facilities to hydrogen storage facilities or would you have built new storage facilities in ten years time?


[00:32:29.170] - Germain

Yeah. So we are going to convert some of our storage facilities because today it will be less expensive to use what is already existing. And as we have seen, we have different size of storage volumes to address different end users. So we are going to start with small cavern and to increase the size of the cavern in order to meet the needs of the market.


[00:33:04.270] - Jon

So growing along with the market that Rob talked about. Right. Getting every part of the value chain scaling up at the same time.


[00:33:12.740] - Germain

Yeah. But also I would like to highlight that I'm discussing with different European projects at early stage and the needs are very different depending on the country and also from the region, from the hydrogen valley that is going to develop. For instance, I mentioned that we have three projects in France. So we have HyGreen Provence, HyPSTER, and storing project and they are totally different. The three of them are totally different. We have storage. We have important storage for hydrogen in the south of France. We have medium storage in Etrez, and we have smaller storage at Storengy in the northeast of France. So it depends on the needs and the industrial Valley where we are going to develop this project.


[00:34:06.230] - Jon

Okay, so no one size fits all very dependent on the well, the salt cavern, but the application and the demand, the production. Rob, how about you? What's your ten year vision look like?


[00:34:22.150] - Rob

Yeah, no, it's a good question. I think at the risk of sounding slightly repetitive and probably very vague, I think the development of storage over the next ten years is going to be really dependent on two major factors, how big pure hydrogen networks are. So that's pipelines moving hydrogen from one area to another. My personal opinion is if you've got a well developed hydrogen network, which might be a little bit early for 2032, if you've got that network, storage can then play a really important role, as if you've got your utilisation sector, you've got your network that supplies that utilisation, then storage can then be on the other side of your other side of your network to your utilisation as a strategic energy store that then feeds that network. If you've got a hydrogen network, then I think storage has absolutely got to play a role. Line pack will as well, so that's the amount of hydrogen you can stuff into those pipes. But having that big strategic store will be really important. I think also one thing that we haven't talked about huge amount here is and I understand, Germain, your project is all around green hydrogen, but the role of blue hydrogen will be really important for how big storage becomes, because if you have blue storage, blue hydrogen production, your need for storage is slightly less severe.


[00:35:50.630] - Rob

So really, I think the role for storage is going to be closely tied to the production of green hydrogen, because if you think about an ammonia plant, if you've got an intermittent production, but a constant supply is a really good way of decoupling those two issues.


[00:36:10.130] - Jon

Well, it's going to be absolutely fascinating seeing the hydrogen sector develop. It's probably a bit wrong to say the hydrogen sector. I think the hydrogen sectors, because as we've talked about in this podcast, there are lots of different ways that hydrogen could and probably will develop. So thanks very much, Germain, for joining us. Really appreciate your time and sharing your experience so far.


[00:36:42.710] - Germain

Thank you to invite us.


[00:36:45.290] - Jon

And thanks very much, Rob, for joining the podcast again.


[00:36:48.730] - Rob

Yeah, thanks for having me on, Jon.


[00:36:51.530] - Jon

So listeners, I hope this shed more light into the hydrogen sector in general and specifically the role of hydrogen storage. We know we're going to need a lot more storage, and I suspect a significant part of that storage will come from hydrogen in the future. We hope you enjoyed the episode and look forward to welcoming you back to the podcast next week. Thanks and goodbye.


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