Show Accessibility Options

Hide Accessibility options
Podcast S14E01

How do Finance, eMobility, and Mobility as a Service come together?

How do Finance, eMobility, and Mobility as a Service come together?

A significant proportion of vehicles are leased to customers, rather than being bought outright. What does the growth of EVs mean for leasing companies? How can leasing companies support customers in a world of electrified transport? And will mobility follow the ‘as a Service’ trend we increasingly see in other industries – will we see EV Mobility as a Service taking hold? To discuss this and more, Jon Slowe is joined by Nick Salkeld, COO of MHC Mobility, and Delta-EE expert Kate Armitage.

Episode transcript

[00:00:04.690] - Jon

Welcome to Talking New Energy, a podcast from Delta-EE, the new energy experts. We'll be talking about how the energy transition is developing across Europe with guests who are working at the leading edge of this transition. Hello, and welcome to the episode. Lots and lots of eyes are focused on electric vehicles at the moment. They're focused on the energy sector. And of course, lots of eyes in the automotive space are focused on EVs. And today I'm talking with one such company from the automotive space, not a manufacturer, but a leasing company. Many of you will know a significant proportion of vehicles are leased to customers rather than customers buying them outright. What does the growth of EVs mean for leasing companies? How can leasing companies support customers in a world of electrified transport? And will mobility follow that ‘as a service’ trend that we see in more and more industries? So will we see electric mobility as a service starting to take hold? To discuss these questions and more, I'm joined by two guests, Nick Salkeld, COO of MHC Mobility, and my colleague and Delta-EE expert Kate Armitage. Let's say hello to both of you.


[00:01:22.340] - Jon

So Hello, Nick. Hi.


[00:01:24.380] - Nick



[00:01:25.200] - Jon

All right. Hi, Kate.


[00:01:26.590] - Kate

Morning, Jon. Morning, Nick.


[00:01:28.730] - Nick

Hi, Kate.


[00:01:30.450] - Jon

Nick, can I start with you first? I'm guessing that many of our listeners might not have heard of MHC Mobility. Maybe they've lost out so far by not knowing who you are, but can you give us an elevator pitch?


[00:01:43.050] - Nick

Sure. Happy to, Jon. Yeah. MHC Mobility. It's a European mobility business. We're backed by the global Mitsubishi HC Capital, based in Tokyo, which is a subsidiary of MUFG, a very substantial worldwide banking group. We've got a presence across Europe in currently nine countries, although we're looking obviously to expand as our strategy evolves. We've got them more than 500,000 vehicles globally, which include cars, commercial vehicles, vans, e-scooters, e-bikes. So we very much have developed our portfolio based upon the changing market demands and needs. And we've also got one of the fastest growing EV fleets in Europe.


[00:02:33.330] - Jon

How many of those 500K or what sort of numbers of EVs in Europe?


[00:02:40.410] - Nick

In Europe, we have around 15% of our portfolio, which is EV and hybrid.


[00:02:47.710] - Jon



[00:02:48.750] - Nick

And that obviously is expanding today. If we look at the level of growth in 2021, obviously, in a number of the key markets, for example, the UK and the Netherlands, that portfolio, particularly on the EV side, is expanding and actually outgrowing the hybrid take up.


[00:03:09.110] - Jon

That's exciting.


[00:03:10.470] - Nick

Yeah. It's a big change we've seen that certainly evolved over the last year or so, and it's very rapidly changing. If you look at, as I said, 2021, there's been some important changes, and we're looking very much to outgrow the market in terms of the level of EV takeup because we believe that we want to adopt very much a leading position. The other thing is that we're very much as part of this strategy focused on a sustainable future. So for us, as digitization accelerates, cities evolve, ways of travelling changes. As we've all seen, we want to be providing more flexible solutions at MHC Mobility to our customers. And we think the decarbonisation agenda and obviously the focus on EV is really important.


[00:04:00.840] - Jon

That's great to hear. Nick. I introduced MHC as a leasing company. For those of our listeners that aren't so familiar with leasing, can you just describe in a nutshell, well who your customers are and what you offer them?


[00:04:15.030] - Nick

In the main, our customers are corporate users. We have a range of small fleet through to very large potential corporate users. But 99% of our business is in the corporate and business sector with a very small amount of personal leasing. But obviously, as the EV takeup accelerates, there are more opportunities for us in the personal leasing space as well. But predominantly we're focused on the business and corporate sector.


[00:04:46.810] - Jon

And they might be taking how many vehicles, what’s the range from?


[00:04:48.450] - Nick

Well, it could be anything from two or three to 15,000 plus. So there's a huge range in terms of fleet, actual sizes and also fleet potentials.


[00:04:59.670] - Jon

Okay, thanks, Nick. Come back to you shortly. Kate, I know we've talked a lot about your interest in the leasing space and EVs. Can you explain that interest? Why you're so excited about companies like Nick’s company, MHC getting more involved in EVs?


[00:05:21.340] - Kate

Yeah, definitely. Leasing isn't new by any stretch of the imagination, and particularly on the business and corporate side. This is a well trodden route. But for me, where it gets interesting is where you introduce electric vehicles. And that's because we all know and agree that electric vehicles are good for the environment and are absolutely essential to taking the carbon out of the road transport system. But the fly in the ointment is that they are very expensive upfront to buy. However, if you look at an electric vehicle over the life that you own it, which we call the total cost of ownership, electric vehicles are actually very attractive as an alternative to an internal combustion engine vehicle. You really have to be thinking about this in terms of the total cost of ownership and amortising that upfront cost over the life that you have that vehicle for. And that is where it plays straight into the hands of leasing a vehicle rather than owning it. And when I talk about high upfront costs, the benefits, as many of us know it, are the low running costs, and that's specifically the fuel, the cost of the electricity. Despite rising electricity prices at the moment, it's still very cost effective.


[00:06:54.880] - Kate

And also the servicing and maintenance on electric vehicles is dramatically lower than the traditional model, which kind of leads into this other exciting element. Leasing companies are service providers and the world of opportunity that opens up when you're talking about providing services that relate to alternative fuel vehicles, but probably more accurately, electric vehicles becomes really interesting.


[00:07:22.900] - Jon

So those charging services, the smart charging.


[00:07:26.450] - Kate

Exactly. So it's not just about the provision of the vehicle anymore, but there's an opportunity to actually provide the entire service for that vehicle, including the fueling. So the charging hardware, potentially the electricity, management of the battery assets.


[00:07:43.630] - Jon

So it's a trend we see in other industries, which is well, in the energy transition, more high capex items for customers, like a really efficient heating system or like a PV on your roof, low opex. But that upfront cost is a hurdle for many. So I guess it's a similar trend. ‘Vehicle as a service’ all the way through to ‘mobility as a service’.


[00:08:07.870] - Kate

And battery storage, it intersects so many other parts of the energy transition.


[00:08:15.430] - Jon

Nick, I'm imagining you share Kate's excitement about EVs and leasing, but when you think about the growing proportion of those electric vehicles, what opportunities does this open up apart from just keeping doing what you're doing, but with electric vehicles rather than combustion engine vehicles?


[00:08:35.170] - Nick

Well, opportunities, obviously, as the market. I mean, Kate summarised I think very well what that means potentially for us in terms of looking at the total cost of ownership or total cost of mobility, as we're now calling it, because for us, it's about the holistic approach to that. So it's really important in terms of opportunities to embrace the challenges that we face with electric vehicle transition. But with that, the opportunities are significant. I mean, we look at now a higher level of take up potentially in terms of company cars because obviously the benefit in kind issues are more preferential for the drivers. And we take the UK as an example. The very points that Kate's making about making about the total cost aspect when you look at the overall cost, electric vehicles are extremely beneficial in terms of overall cost when you take into account the total mobility cost.


[00:09:36.930] - Jon

So, Nick, what about the other services that Kate talked about going beyond just providing leasing a vehicle but with a different drive train? What are you hearing from your customers? Are they wanting more services from you than just the vehicle, or what do you think they do want from you?


[00:09:55.690] - Nick

Yeah, well Jon. I think the key challenge is partnering up with our customers to support them in the transition from ICE to EV. So there is a lot of support that we need to provide to customers and drivers, but also to focus on the holistic aspect of the service that we can provide in terms of our mobility solutions. So one of the challenges that we're seeing on electric vehicles is, of course, the infrastructure needed for charging, and we're looking to try and tailor infrastructure solutions for customers to be able to give them this sort of more modular, end to end charging proposition, looking at consolidated solutions for charging, because for us, that's really important because it's not just about providing the vehicle or indeed the leasing rental associated with that vehicle. We also have to have a look at the overall package that's provided because one of the challenges that we're finding is the aspect of charging. It used to be very much a sort of range anxiety that we were seeing with electric vehicles. Now we're looking at something that is more related to charger anxiety and how do we cope with that charging challenge?


[00:11:11.200] - Nick

So that's our focus at the moment as to how we can provide more of that holistic approach, end to end charging solutions. So it's not just about the leasing provision.


[00:11:22.930] - Kate

Can I add in, Nick, particularly in a corporate environment and a fleet environment, they don't necessarily know what they want. Jon, all of that time and effort and thought has gone into, will electric vehicles work for me? Which vehicles in my fleet should I be looking at switching across? So the decision making then around the infrastructure is secondary. And I think one of the things that we've discovered from some work that we've been doing recently, looking at corporate workplace charging is a lot of the time it is perceived as charging hardware, and the procurement is approached as a hardware exercise. But actually charging is much more of a service anyway. Of course, there's a hardware element to it.


[00:12:27.890] - Jon

The hardware element Kate might be building the charging infrastructure, the chargers at the depot.


[00:12:33.810] - Kate



[00:12:34.160] - Jon

And the service element might be then the maintenance of that or the electricity. What do you mean by the ongoing part?


[00:12:41.810] - Kate

So you need a kind of back office computer system that provides a holistic view of what your infrastructure is doing. It gives the fleet manager visibility of which chargers are working, how much power and which vehicles are being charged. Understanding that and understanding what you need to procure actually is quite difficult when you've never done it before. And then from that, the journey then goes on, which is, well, now, of course, you need load balancing or you need to upgrade your power supply. And what happens when your employees aren't charging in the office car park? How do you incorporate charging from home into that story? How do you monitor that? How do you pay your employees if they're charging their van up at home?


[00:13:33.720] - Jon

From all these things Kate, Nick, it sounds like you've got a lot to do.


[00:13:38.370] - Nick

But in a sense, it's not altogether surprising because this is such a huge change in approach. I mean, bear in mind, ICE vehicles in the way that it's been approached through fleets. That's been going on for many years. And now we're looking at the evolution towards electric vehicles. And we saw last year in all of the countries, electric vehicle take up has been significantly increased. And we saw in the UK, 36% of registrations were electric vehicle and hybrid. So it was a very significant percentage. So that will raise more challenges. The other thing we're seeing is accuracy of billing is of an issue because you're looking at some drivers are paying between 2.3p per mile when charging at home, others are paying more than 9p and the variations can be very significant. So we need to look at working with customers to be able to get the reporting right on that so that we can also encourage them where best to apply the charging sort of points that Kate is making there. So it's a very exciting time, but partnering with customers is really important. All the challenges that Kate's summarising, the ones that I'm pointing to show how important it is for people to work together for mobility providers like MHC Mobility and customers to work really closely together on this.


[00:15:06.970] - Jon

Do you see that, Nick, as part of your new core competence? So these things that you're bringing in house that MHC is offering themselves or as it's all quite new, are you partnering with people that can provide these services with you or for you or a bit of both?


[00:15:25.330] - Nick

Yes. Obviously we work in the UK, as you know, with Gridserve, but we very much see ourselves when our customers are talking to us. We want to be able to answer all of these questions for them in terms of the integrated solution. And obviously our job is behind the scenes to make sure we're able to provide that solution. So it's not just about the provision of the vehicle at a cost, but also meeting these challenges, supporting our customers in terms of coming up with solutions for these challenges and making sure we're working with the right partners so that when we're presenting this total cost and ability to our customers, it's with the confidence of knowing we've got a good infrastructure behind us.


[00:16:14.570] - Jon

Kate, what do you see when you look widely? Do you see companies like MHC developing new core competencies or is it a struggle for some companies to move from the traditional way of working to all the other services that you need with EVs?


[00:16:35.670] - Kate

This is definitely a big ask, not least of which in the same way that fleets are now having to juggle vehicles of multiple fuels, so are the leasing companies. So yes, it's great news that we're seeing EV take up of 10%, 30% within vehicle parks, but there is still maintaining the petrol diesel fleet as well. So you've got your business as usual and this whole new world and somehow you have to balance both of those two things. At the same time that we've seen plugin vehicles rising in popularity, we've seen diesel vehicles losing popularity at a dramatic rate. And I think I've said this before, but the whole raison d’etre of leasing companies is achieving the residual value on the vehicle at the end. So there's so many assumptions around the pricing of the service regarding what the value of that asset is at the end. Five years ago, the leasing companies were very worried about what the residual value of this new technology would be uncertainty around the battery life uncertainty around these vehicles. But I think actually what's happened is we've seen that electric vehicles are holding the value extremely well, and we suddenly have our attention firefighting in another direction, which is the residual value of diesels, which has been a particularly stable market for decades, is suddenly now falling into question.


[00:18:12.370] - Jon

That has been predictable to a lot of significant figures.


[00:18:20.590] - Kate

For decades. We're seeing quite a lot of turbulence in the whole market. And this transition to electric is not easy. There are so many elements to it, and even the experts in the e-mobility specialists that a lot of leasing companies are partnering with are still grappling with a lot of these issues and nuances, particularly when it comes to corporate fleets.


[00:18:43.570] - Jon

Nick what would you say your biggest challenges are then? Is this percentage of electric or battery electric vehicles, even rather than hybrids, goes up and up in your fleet? What are you worried about? What your challenge is? It's a bit of a negative way of thinking, but what are you going to have to get right in the next years?


[00:19:00.260] - Nick

Well, obviously, we talked about charging infrastructure. I mean, the pace of change in the various countries is obviously very different. So we see the levels of support in the Netherlands, for example, is very significant also in terms of other transport options that are so important. So access to public transportation to provide alternative means is important. But also we're seeing the density of public EV charging stations, for example. The Netherlands is significantly higher than in a lot of other countries. So that support infrastructure is really important. So working with governments to improve, that is something we can't do on our own. We need the support of government. So the pace of change in the various countries is very different. Charging, as I said, charging infrastructure is a challenge. We need to respond to that challenge by providing, if you like, a more holistic approach in terms of this end to end charging solution. Also, there's a lot of work to be done to explain to people how this change will work, particularly to drivers. So we spend a lot of time with our various EV hubs that we have to explain to drivers what that means, so that there's an easier transition also to companies as part of the sustainability agenda to explain what it means.


[00:20:19.880] - Nick

But particularly as we've highlighted the start to explain the overall cost implications because it's a big change. All these companies have transport budgets, mobility budgets now, and they need to know what the change will be to their overall cost structure as a result of making this change to EV. So, yeah, there's a lot of work we need to do, but that's why leasing and mobility providers have such a big role to play now and in the future, because the partnership aspect that I've highlighted, Kate highlighted are I think really important for the future success of EV. We can't do it on our own. Customers can't do it on their own. We require also OEMs to work with us. We require governments to work with us, local authorities to work with us. So it's now more than ever about real partnership and not just one company doing what they want or a leasing provider doing what they want. There has to be a complete holistic approach to this.


[00:21:17.570] - Jon

Yes. And the nature of what it means to be a leasing company in a few years to work now is different to what it was five years ago, because five years ago, I guess it was the cars and maybe the fuel cards or something like that. Now it's the cars, it's the charge points. It's so many different things you've got to think about your business is quite different.


[00:21:41.760] - Nick

Yeah. But it's also part of the transition to e-mobility, Jon. I mean, what we're saying is that we've seen this not just as a result of EV, but EV, but companies are looking for more than just the provision of a vehicle. So other transport options is really important. A mobility budget is now much more important for companies. What's my total cost of mobility? Not just related to vehicles. So of course, it's a big change from what we've seen, but it's also, if you like, a natural transition from the changes in terms of mobility and transport into EV. And that's why it's such an exciting time for us, because the opportunities are very significant.


[00:22:24.020] - Jon

Okay. Well, let's move on. After the phrase I used in the introduction, mobility as a service, because I think that's what you started talking about is you're providing not just cars, but mobility. Kate, can you just demystify this word a bit for our listeners wondering what on earth does mobility as a service mean? What does it mean to you?


[00:22:48.450] - Kate

Actually, Jon, many people have heard me say this before, but it's such a simple way to describe it. And I plagiarised this from a gentleman at BMW that I heard ten years ago. He said that if you think about traditional vehicle ownership, you think of James Bond because he owns his car and he modifies his car to do all the things that he needs it to do. That's the traditional ownership model. But we're moving into a world of Jason Bourne, where you don't own a vehicle. If you need a vehicle, you borrow it or you steal it or you jump on it and you may only be in that vehicle for 10 seconds or you may be in that vehicle for three days. That's really how I see mobility as a service. It's not this linear. This is my one mode of transport. It's about whatever is the best mode of transport for the job at that moment in time, wherever you happen to be.


[00:23:51.630] - Jon

Nick does that chime with you?


[00:23:53.390] - Nick



[00:23:54.570] - Jon

The Jason Bourne analogy?


[00:23:56.290] - Nick

Yeah, I'm not sure about the Jason Bourne analogy, but I can understand the point. But I think no, I absolutely agree. I think the mobility is now very much about the integration of different modes of transport, of numerous modes of transport into a single mobility service. So I absolutely agree, Kate's point. I think for us that's part and parcel of what MHC Mobility as a mobility service provider has to do. We have to offer an overall solution, not just about the vehicle, but the full range of mobility options so that the drivers of, the historical driver of the vehicle has other alternatives available to him or her in terms of their transport needs. And picking up on your point, Jon, about this sort of buzzword, I mean, I think mobility is a service. Okay. It's a word. It's a description of what we do. But it's really something I think as an industry we've been doing for years, our job has been as leasing providers, fleet management companies as we used to be, is to make sure that our drivers, our customers are mobile, that their drivers are able to retain their mobility. And I think enabling companies and their employees to be mobile has been the very heart of leasing.


[00:25:16.590] - Nick

What we've seen no, Jon, is that has now extended into the wider range of transport options so that it's more of a mobility provision. So this is a full range of options rather than just providing traditional car leasing, as we will remember it. So it is a buzzword, you might say, because everybody's talking about it. But for me, it's not such a complex word in the sense that we have been providing mobility as leasing businesses for many years.


[00:25:51.190] - Jon

I guess a way that you'll be providing that is changing. You've been providing that through essentially providing a car, and in the future, it's a different type of car with different services. But what else might that involve? I can imagine our listeners thinking, well, I get the concept, but what might one of your customers who previously said, MHC can we have 100 cars? Can we lease 100 cars from you? What might they be asking you or what might you be giving them?


[00:26:24.630] - Nick

The one thing that we look at is when we do a fleet assessment with our customers, when we go in as MHC Mobility, we look at the fleet that they have to say, do you actually need that number of vehicles? Are all those vehicles being properly used? Is there full utilisation? Are there alternative ways car sharing, for example? Is that an opportunity? Can we look at different modes of transport? Is it possible that you can support your drivers to move from A to B with other forms of transport? Have we looked at E-bikes in some of the cities? Are there other electric vehicle transport requirements that we need to be delivering? So for us, it's about making sure that we offer that full range, but it's not just about the car anymore. It's not just about the commercial vehicle. It's about making sure that we support our customers to look at (1) Can they use their fleet more efficiently to be able to reduce their costs and improve services within their fleet? But really importantly, can we do it more sustainably? Is there another way of supporting our customers to achieve their mobility needs? And that's we think is a critical part of what MHC Mobility as a business has to be delivering as part of our sustainability agenda moving forward, because that's a critical part of our strategy.


[00:27:45.820] - Jon

Kate. Do you see that wider trend or do you think it's more to come rather than in the market yet, or are you seeing signs of this through your research?


[00:27:53.580] - Kate

So people have been talking about mobility as a service for years. There have been some high profile failures, maybe you could say around car clubs, Paris's famous electric Autolib. BMW struggled with Drive Now in London. And we've also had the terrible effects of the Pandemic, which has really impacted a lot of this shared mobility model. I am very optimistic. I think the underlying trend is still good. So the timings we may not have got right, it may have taken longer. Some of the cultural behavioural stuff around, actually, there's a lot more James Bond in us than we realised, despite the fact that we think Jason Bourne is great, it's not quite for us yet. So it's just at what speed this happens. I believe it is good. I believe it is right. We look at the young people today and they are much less about owning vehicles, much less actually about learning to drive, which again is something that companies like MHC need to have their eye on. The e-bikes, the e-scooters may actually become much more relevant for younger employees sooner than we might have anticipated.


[00:29:33.030] - Jon

So I guess with these sort of trends, often they take longer to happen, which is what you described just now, Kate, but when they happen, they can happen much more quickly than people anticipate, as I think we've seen with electric vehicle take up in the last year. So I'm really excited Nick about how you talk about the conversations with customers because you're focusing on the outcomes of what they need, the ultimate service needing to get from A to B, and what's the most efficient, sustainable, cost effective way of doing that?


[00:30:11.260] - Nick

Yeah. And of course, that's what we have to do. That's what we continue to do. But the really important thing is that the heart of what we're doing is delivering a service. The most important thing is to make sure that our customers, their drivers are mobile, have the different options available to them in terms of particularly when we're explaining about the move to electric vehicles. But the fundamental core of what we do is making sure our customers are really happy with the services that we're providing. And so we shouldn't also forget about the fact that as part of our fleet and Kate mentioned it earlier, we have a significant ICE vehicle content, which we need to make sure we continue to service, because at the heart of that is the delivery of the service to our customers. And that's the most important thing for us is not just explaining about the evolution and the change to EV, which is critical, but also about making sure we are delivering a service to all of our drivers across the whole fleet.


[00:31:18.040] - Jon

Yeah. Okay. Well, let's bring out the talking new energy crystal ball. And this week I'm going to set the date 2030. Now, we've talked a bit about the future already in terms of the trend, the way things are going. I'm going to ask a relatively simple question, and you can answer it in whatever way you choose. But if we think of 2030 and we think of customers who don't want to or can't pay for an electric vehicle upfront, can you describe how you think they'll be getting from A to B? And the answer, of course, a range of ways. So can you give me one thing that will change most by 2030 that is more different from or really different from today? So customers that want to get from A to B can't afford to buy an electric vehicle, how might they be getting from A to B in quite a different way from people generally do today? Nick, do you want to go first and then, Kate?


[00:32:25.180] - Nick

Yeah. Well, I think in terms of that challenge, that's where leasing, I think, becomes so important, because being able to support our customers, to be able to facilitate that, the change to EV is done through leasing, to be able to look at the overall cost of mobility and be able to provide that through a leasing rental is critical, but also to be able to ensure that we're delivering that mobility budget. So looking at the different options. But I think because when we look at the scale of the fleet, the size of fleet, the way in which fleets can be at the forefront of this change is so important because of the number of vehicles that we're talking about.


[00:33:15.470] - Jon

Okay. Thanks, Nick. Kate, how about you?


[00:33:19.330] - Kate

I'd like to paint a picture, Jon.


[00:33:21.850] - Jon



[00:33:24.070] - Kate

Somewhere in Europe, possibly not in the UK, possibly somewhere like Norway. By 2030, I envisage that the humble multi storey car park will be totally different. I think we'll see an all electric multi story car park, which means no tailpipe fumes, which means it can be an enclosed building, which would be a rather pleasant experience. And it will be serviced by car clubs as well as individual vehicle ownership. And that multi storey car park will become a virtual power plant. And it will also be a mobility hub. So it will be a place to take your electric vehicle that you've charged up overnight to the mobility hub. And I think a lot of this is influenced by what we know is happening around clean air zones and zero emission zones and car free zones in our towns and cities.


[00:34:24.790] - Jon

Is this car park in the city centre, Kate, in a suburb?


[00:34:29.350] - Kate

So it depends on whether it's a car free city or whether it's zero emission city. So it will all be interpreted differently. It could be an out of town park and ride, but your vehicle during the day becomes effectively vehicle to carpark battery storage. So you've got the whole VPP. And as a mobility hub, it will be onward transportation via e-bus or e-scooter or e-bike. I don't think this is a pipe dream. We will see it. I think we will see it by 2030, possibly not in the UK, maybe in Norway, or maybe more relevant in actually a Southern European city where e-scooters are taking off much quicker for obvious reasons in terms of climate.


[00:35:23.270] - Nick

And I think, Jon, I mean, just picking up that point, I think we see businesses as real change makers in this when it comes to making these changes to carbon net zero position by 2030. And I think the business is at the forefront of these changes by taking the leadership position. I think they'll lead the charge. That's what we're seeing today. And I think as that happens, there will be more exposure to electric vehicles. There will be more private individuals that will then look and see, okay, I see my neighbour next door now has an electric vehicle and his or her drive, and that will then also support this change. But I think at the forefront of this is the businesses taking the lead as changemakers to make this change happen. So the things that Kate is talking about in terms of also our aspirations to move to a carbon net zero position by 2030, I think that will be made easier by having businesses taking the leading position and then private individuals seeing that actually electric vehicles are very much things, not just of the future but of the present today as well. And I think when we see businesses taking that leadership supported by governments and the infrastructural changes, then we are very hopeful of a carbon net zero position by 2030 actually being a reality.


[00:36:50.950] - Jon

I always enjoy the conversations I have on the podcast. I'm particularly excited about today's conversation and the way in which corporate fleets, I think you've described, Nick, are changing. They're still sounds quite early. But I think that transformation will be very quick, as you say. And Kate very excited by the picture you painted. And yeah, I can really see that happening. And you've got a great intersection there of changes in mobility and mobility's impact in the electricity or energy sector.


Nick, Kate, thank you both very much for a really stimulating conversation. I really enjoyed it. Hope everyone listening enjoyed it too and it gave you some new ideas. Some new perspectives may encourage you to go to look at an EV. If you haven't already think about that transition for yourself, look forward to welcoming you back to the episode next week. Thanks and goodbye.


[00:37:54.490] - Nick

Thank you, Jon.


[00:37:55.050] - Kate

Thank you. Thank you.


[00:37:56.880] - Nick

Thank you.


[00:37:59.330] - Jon

If you're as passionate about the energy transition as we are, then please keep in touch. You can follow us and me on Twitter LinkedIn or subscribe to the podcasts on your chosen podcast platform. If you like the podcast and like sharing, then please do rate us and to listen to archived episodes, to read transcripts and to see the latest Delta-EE insights, then please visit


Add yourself to our mailing list

Add yourself to our mailing list