Jon Slowe – Director - Delta-EE
Rob Jolly - Founder and CEO - EvEzy
Philipp Maul, Co-founder, Juicar
Abhishek Sampat -Principal Analyst- Delta-EE
[00:00:00.000] - Jon Slowe
Welcome to Talking to Energy, a podcast from Delta-EE, the new energy experts. We will be talking about how the energy transition is developing across Europe, with guests who are working at the leading edge of this transition.
[00:00:22.340] - Jon Slowe
Hello and welcome to the episode. In this episode, we bring the three themes together.
[00:00:27.800] - Jon Slowe
First electrification of transport. Second the move from product ownership towards services or as a service models. And thirdly the coming together of two established industries the energy industry and the transport industry. These three themes come together in electric car subscription businesses and I'm joined today by two companies from Switzerland and the UK that are at the forefront of this emerging area.
[00:00:57.800] - Jon Slowe
Now some of you listening may already own an electric vehicle but I'm sure that there are many of you who don't but are really interested in driving one.
[00:01:07.520] - Jon Slowe
And I'm also sure that many of you don't own outright your current internal combustion engine car but lease it. Well, the two businesses that we have joining us today can both provide you with an electric vehicle with charging included for a monthly subscription with the ability to cancel whenever you want. So now we've whetted your appetite without further ado let's introduce my guests. So first up we have Philipp Maul co-founder at Juicar.
[00:01:40.980] - Philipp Maul
Hi, very nice to meet you, very good to be here. Looking forward to the podcast.
Jon Slowe - Great.
[00:01:46.700] - Jon Slowe
Philip your, could you tell us a little bit about your company and the name Juicar and what the history of your company is where you've come from and in a nutshell what you do.
[00:02:00.000] - Philipp Maul
Sure. So Juicar is basically a combination of two aspects like you said already and that's juice so the electricity for the car and the car itself. That's basically what the name comes from. As a company we were actually founded in the Oysterlab, Oysterlab is an incubator or company builder by Alpiq, a Swiss energy company and how it all came to be is actually that we were doing research for a different project and by doing that realised that there is a lot of misconceptions and a lot of uncertainties and fears around electric vehicles, plus that there is actually a need for good means of transportation that are easy and flexible and actually fit lifestyle needs and what people nowadays want.
[00:02:52.020] - Philipp Maul
So, therefore, we started first tests with ourselves putting ourselves in the industry in the segment with some users and within three months we had the first cars on the roads.
[00:03:05.100] - Philipp Maul
And now we're live in four countries.
[00:03:08.250] – Jon Slowe
Wow. So, it wasn't a master plan. There wasn't a big strategy to do this it came about through seeing an unmet need in the market.
Philipp Maul - Exactly.
Jon Slowe - And the countries you're in obviously Switzerland will be one of them.
[00:03:22.880] - Philipp Maul
Yes. It’s Switzerland, Germany. Liechtenstein and now we are launching in Italy.
[00:03:30.800] – Jon Slowe
Very exciting. Thanks, Philipp, we'll come back to you shortly. My second guest is Rob Jolly founder and CEO at Evezy.
[00:03:42.800] - Rob Jolly
Hi, yeah great to be here speaking to you. Do you want me to jump into a bit of an introduction of Evezy now?
[00:03:49.630] – Jon Slowe
Yeah absolutely and likewise a name means something as well doesn't it.
[00:03:54.780] - Rob Jolly
Yeah exactly. So, I will spare some of the details because Philipp has already covered a lot of what we also do.
[00:04:04.140] - Rob Jolly
Evezy stands for EV easy, the background the name and we’re an electric vehicle subscription service all- inclusive, car insurance, maintenance and public charging included. We launched about two and a half years ago in the U.K. and we’ve got just over 1000 customers in our vehicles today and it's funding quickly. A little bit about my background I was actually working at Jaguar Land Rover before this for about six years in the corporate strategy team doing a lot on mobility trends and how we're going to migrate across to electric vehicles. And yes started Evezy off the back of that, realizing that there's a massive need for having a brand agnostic platform, which it was take the benefit of leasing but without the long term commitment and baking in the all-inclusive nature to actually show that even though the vehicles are slightly more expensive the total cost of ownership is cheaper.
[00:05:00.540] - Rob Jolly
So that's the background for it and yeah why we can actually price competitively verse leasing without the long-term commitment.
[00:05:09.210] – Jon Slowe
And Rob did the idea come to you, did you wake up in the middle of the night with this idea or did it come to you through your work at Jaguar Land Rover in corporate strategy actually overtime just seeing the trends in the market or talking with customers?
[00:05:23.610] – Jon Slowe
How did the seed of this business develop?
Rob Jolly - A little bit through work and it was something we explored about doing with Jaguar Land Rover initially and then yeah, they couldn't or didn't have the appetite to do it, so we took it outside of that. I think the big turning point for me was actually back whenever it was four or five years ago when we were developing the I-PACE and actually going out and testing the vehicles. And at that point I'd never been in an electric vehicle and just the cars out there, obviously the Tesla Model S but even Nissan Leaf and the Renault ZOE.
[00:06:00.140] – Rob Jolly
It just blew my mind over these cars and actually realise that these are kind of a milk flow or a spaceship or every else that people kind of initially judge the cars as. But actually, they're just very good cars to drive and have so much benefit in terms of the driving characteristics over petrol a diesel car.
[00:06:20.190] – Jon Slowe
Great. So, opening up that opportunity to more and more people. Rob, we will come back to you shortly.
[00:06:28.040] – Jon Slowe
As always, we're joined here by our resident expert at Delta-EE. And this week I'd like to welcome Abhishek Sampat. Hello Abhishek.
Abhishek Sampat - Good morning Jon, how are you doing?
Jon Slowe - Very well, excited to be talking about this topic. Abhishek the automotive sector as a whole is coping with some huge changes at the moment electrification, autonomous vehicles, connected cars, the move from ownership to shared ownership of services. Now your background is with the automotive sector and I'm interested in your feel for how much the automotive companies are moving into these sorts of subscription models, shared services that Juicar and Evezy are pioneering.
[00:07:19.030] - Abhishek Sampat
Yeah. So, I mean all of the key the four topics you just described are challenges but they’re also opportunities and different automakers are looking at it in different ways. So, we've got people like now Daimler and BMW combining forces to provide their shared mobility solution to buy a car to go, drive now. We've got similar things with charging infrastructure to support that. So, there's always, most OEMs have an investment or a VC arm or an incubator arm that allows them to experiment with different services that don't fit the main corporate vision. And we're seeing more and more expand into that, but a lot of them are partnering very intelligently with you know targeted groups that enable them to try these sort of services specifically around ownership releasing.
Jon Slowe – So, it's on their agenda then Abhishek some are active, some are really pushing it, others are feeling their way through investments but in the next years we'll see more and more you think from the big automotive companies.
[00:08:23.850] - Abhishek Sampat
Oh absolutely, absolutely.
Jon Slowe – And when you look at energy companies across Europe. So, I've mentioned at the beginning this of confluence of the automotive sector and the energy sector. To what degree do you see energy companies also looking to develop these type of offerings?
[00:08:43.660] - Abhishek Sampat
Well, it's interesting you say that because we're seeing energy companies now embrace EVs, every energy company or every utility you talk to has someone on their team or a team or a large team actually sometimes which looks at EVs and the penetration of EVs and what it do for them. Now that could be because they have a service requirement to meet but also because they see it as an opportunity for growth. And you've got people like Octopus now doing vehicle leasing and EV charging and the home wall box all of that in one.
[00:09:14.800] - Abhishek Sampat
And that's one example of things coming together as one package.
[00:09:21.610] – Jon Slowe
So again, some energy companies at the forefront of this, my impression would be probably a few rather than many. Do you think from, do you think energy companies have the appetite for this as a whole would you say the sector as a whole? Or when you look at it would you say actually this is quite a stretch to move into a subscription type electric vehicle offering?
[00:09:47.800] - Abhishek Sampat
Yeah I mean for some they're looking at it from being part of that value chain but for some energy companies just providing the energy service to that value chain is probably enough for them to diversify their revenue from today's supply and we're also looking at some major oil and gas corporations moving into electricity and EC charging. Would they at some point also look at providing a vehicle? Maybe, but we haven't seen that yet.
[00:10:24.320] – Jon Slowe
Okay. Thanks, Abhishek. Now let's come back to Philipp and Rob who are pioneering this. So, I've got a few themes to discuss with you both.
[00:10:38.290] – Jon Slowe
The first question I'd like to ask you both is how much to bundle together. So, on one hand, what you could, what you offer could just be a car on a subscription model but you're both bundling a bit more than the car that aspects of charging so maybe starting Philipp with you.
[00:10:58.910] – Jon Slowe
What's options do you offer the customer in terms of how much you bundle together and why have you chosen those options?
Philipp Maul - So maybe we’ll have to go back a little bit in history. In the beginning, we had the conception of or the idea of actually bundling everything. But over time realised and also with a lot of customer feedback that that's not the ideal scenario. So currently what we offer is the electric vehicle, home charging, public charging and actually the electricity for home and public charging. You can bundle those altogether or you can just get the electric vehicle on the monthly subscription.
[00:11:40.720] - Philipp Maul
So, by doing that we actually also tackle things that normally are in the domains of two different areas of the car. Obviously with car manufacturers and the energy which is normally done by utilities we combine and offer this as a whole package.
[00:12:00.950] – Jon Slowe
So, two questions Philipp the first question, what proportion roughly of customers go just for the vehicle and what go for the wider bundle with home charging, public charging and electricity. And the second question what were you considering to bundle in addition to these things that you now don't bundle in?
[00:12:22.560] - Philipp Maul
So, for the first, I would say when people sign up to the offer it's around 40/60 so 40 per cent of people just going for the car. But what we see on top is that there is actually a lot of people that quite fast move into getting additional packages installed. So, having chargers or actually the electricity tariff as well. So public charging anyway is always included with the car, but home charging and electricity are actually add ons that most people actually add as soon as they have a car for a couple of months.
[00:13:02.520] – Jon Slowe
Yeah okay. That's quite nice from a business model perspective. I guess you can provide more services to grow the revenue per customer.
Philipp Maul - Yes.
Jon Slowe - And then what about other things you thought you might be bundling in that you're not bundling in or things you might bundle in the future?
[00:13:20.620] – Philipp Maul
There is actually, there's a lot of things so funnily because they are now everywhere on the streets. What we tried bundling in a year ago or one and a half years ago already was like electric scooters for the last mile basically going from your car to the office or wherever you have to go. That was an interesting concept that didn't work out at the time and probably nowadays it's too late to redo it.
Jon Slowe - Yeah.
Philipp Maul - You know you always have to find the rights the right niche to do that. Things that we are trying to add in the future.
[00:13:57.820] - Philipp Maul
There is, which one can I pick that I can share. That's a good question.
[00:14:03.480] – Jon Slowe
I'll come back to that when let's come back and give you a chance to think about what you can reveal. Rob how about your yourself, what do you bundle together?
[00:14:16.320] – Rob Jolly
Yeah sure, it's the car and all everything that goes along with the maintenance, insurance and don't see public charging. We’re, yeah, we partner up and have some preferred suppliers for home charging and installing that, I think in the future we would love to pull in the actual energy tariffs at home and the home charging installation into one subscription so that that's all through a monthly fee. I think what we're just very conscious of is that we're trying to do it in the most effective way for the customer that will actually be price, cost-effective too. So, we don't want to do something where we're limiting them to only having one option and that is by far the cheapest option we can get.
[00:15:03.030] – Rob Jolly
So we're really making sure we can get the best scalable options that the customer will actually see the benefit of having as a bundle because everyone obviously would prefer to have more things included and more simplicity in terms of not having to manage all the different aspects of it, you know, insuring your car at a different time of year, tax it at a different time of year, having to take it in for service then having your energy tariffs and organising that and getting them onto the cheapest tariff. So, from our perspective we know from the vehicle point of view we've got everything as cheap as possible and we're getting the scale benefits that we've passed to the customer to make it cost-effective.
[00:15:46.750] – Rob Jolly
So, they're moving more into what we want to do further on, doing more home charging, integration and the electricity bundles integration once we can get to the point where we think it's the most cost-effective solution.
[00:16:02.520] – Jon Slowe
Okay. So that has to be cost-effective as you say for your customers but what are you learning from your customers are you sensing or hearing that appetite from your customers. Are people saying well why can't you bundle any electricity at home or is that more of a hypothesis that you want to test?
[00:16:19.850] – Rob Jolly
Yeah, I think customers definitely want home charges. There's definitely interest in having it all bolted together. I think that the really interesting bit is that the EV customers want to make sure their home tariff is a renewable tariff, so then there's just a more aligned mindset. So just silly little things like that actually go a long way there’s no point offering a home charging tariff where actually all of the energy is pulled from non-renewable kind of areas. So that's the real learning we've got from it in terms of bundling it all together.
[00:16:56.250] – Rob Jolly
There are not huge amounts of requests. But again, it's about proven that this is a better solution by getting the best offering for the customer to drive that demand ourselves.
[00:17:07.820] – Jon Slowe
[00:17:09.630] – Jon Slowe
Now the next question I'd like to look at is risk and I think I'm right in saying in your subscription models I only have to sign up and commit for one month. Now, this would have some corporate risk managers or make some corporate risk managers very nervous as to how you manage that risk. And we've seen the same thing actually in the heating sector where we have looked at heat as a service contracts, do you need to have a five-year contract a ten-year contract or there's one company that just got a rolling contract that can be cancelled at any time.
[00:17:45.120] – Jon Slowe
So, is it a really big risk to have the ability to cancel after one month? How do you manage that risk? How does that risk actually play out?
[00:17:57.010] – Jon Slowe
Philip, what's your experiences been?
Philipp Maul - So I can just go with basically what Rob said before. It's all about the customer and actually risk of people being able to cancel before us. As we learned it's not a risk at all.
[00:18:14.340] – Philipp Maul
The biggest risk that there is for a subscription service or a digital-only product as we are and I assume Evezy is as well is building the trust of the customer.
[00:18:25.740] – Philipp Maul
That's where it really plays out and that's where you really have to step up your game to ensure people want your product or that are interested in your product, that you can actually provide them with a solution that's safe for them, that's cost-effective for them and where they have no strings attached.
Jon Slowe - And how.
[00:18:49.800] – Jon Slowe
Can you give us an example of how you go about building that trust?
[00:18:57.250] – Philipp Maul
That starts, I mean already, how you advertise your products, how you actually create awareness for your product and then cascades through the whole customer journey.
[00:19:10.180] – Philipp Maul
You always have to, like once you introduce your product you have to double down with facts, with features that your product has. And once you have that you actually have to come back with actual customers, actual statements. How it really plays out and you always have to be attentive as a company as well.
[00:19:35.290] – Philipp Maul
So, if there's somebody reaching out to you should be able to answer any question that comes within actually no time.
[00:19:46.330] – Jon Slowe
So, it's in a way it's part of the DNA of the company it needs to percolate, everything you do needs to have that building of trust in that customer-centric behaviour as you described at its heart.
[00:19:58.810] – Philipp Maul
Obviously, if you're not customer-centric I guess if you're not customer-centric nowadays as any company it doesn't matter which sector you're in, you won’t have a business.
[00:20:09.390] – Jon Slowe
Yeah and building a brand, you're building a brand from scratch. I know now it's a lot, well easier might be the wrong word. But the ability to build a digital brand from scratch is easier than it might have been 20 years ago. Are you putting a lot of effort into building your brand or how aggressive are you being with that or are you looking at taking things quite slowly at the moment?
[00:20:34.790] – Philipp Maul
That's really pennies on which market you're looking at. So, there is.
[00:20:44.850] – Philipp Maul
So, the Swiss market is, we are more established in the Swiss markets than in the German and Italian market. Plus the market also completely reacts differently to your products in different ways so you have to not only have to build your brand a little bit differently in each market you also have to focus on a couple of different points like Rob already said obviously the cost of ownership and everything inclusive, are the two main drivers plus if you have an end to end solution with the superior user experience where you can get out and in at your own choice all the time.
[00:21:27.500] – Philipp Maul
That's always the core but then outside of this you really have to focus on what's important to customer segments in different markets.
[00:21:37.430] – Jon Slowe
Yeah okay. So really understanding your market your customer's augmentation, you know your messages in each market will be tailored towards that particular segment. Rob come back to you and let sort wind back a little bit to risk, where do you see your biggest risks in your business?
[00:21:59.070] – Rob Jolly
I think really the biggest risks are the very macro ones. From our point of view, I think exactly what Philipp said we're not too concerned as long as customers are put at the heart of the customer experience.
[00:22:14.020] – Rob Jolly
Yeah, but, the big horrible ‘B’ word that dooming in on the UK obviously is a potential risk. Changes in tech and batteries which again is a few years out but having set changes in batches informants can obviously have an impact but really from our side.
[00:22:34.180] – Rob Jolly
The biggest thing is just managing supply and demand because at the moment what we're seeing is that we don't have the risk of customers leaving and we have the risk of customers being disappointed and not being able to get in the car quick enough, so it's trying to manage that side a bit more than what happens if worst case no one wants a car or everyone leaves in one go.
[00:22:55.730] – Jon Slowe
Yeah. Of the thousand customers or so that you have, do you have any?
[00:23:00.400] – Jon Slowe
Anything you can share with us on how long they stay with you or how quickly they cancel?
Rob Jolly – Yeah, I'd say without going into the details it’s longer than you'd expect and mirroring more a lease contract than a rental.
[00:23:20.080] – Jon Slowe
So yeah, OK, So, you're not finding people are dipping in for a month just because they need a car for a month and then come back to another solution. They're treating it as a three-year lease, five-year lease that they used to.
Rob Jolly - Yeah in general.
[00:23:33.130] – Jon Slowe
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
[00:23:37.190] – Jon Slowe
I'd like to touch on one last topic, which is both of your views on smart charging. So smart charging does depend on there being a time of use electricity tariff. This is emerging in the UK and in some of the markets that you'll be in Philipp and also vehicle to grid, which is a bit further out, how, maybe starting with smart charging being the more immediate one, is that on both of your roadmaps? Does that come in Rob to what you're talking about with bundling, for example, a tariff with a subscription? Do you see that as something that can really help your customers in the next year or two?
[00:24:21.480] – Rob Jolly
Yeah, I think it’s more about working with the energy providers. As we get more and more into the integration with home tariffs because a lot of them are starting to offer. Well firstly charge points and scheduling cars so that you can't actually charge out of the hours. But yeah, it's definitely a very cool tech that is helpful for both the customer and the grid. So yeah, of course, we'd want to be involved in helping play that out why wouldn't we? It’s saving costs and it’s helping in balancing the grid.
[00:24:58.170] – Jon Slowe
Does that depend on the practicalities of doing that? You need to either go via the connected car to influence the time of charging or to go via connected charger. If you imagine that being part of your offer is that something that's months away do you think? Or years away or is a lot more work to do to get standardisation in place? Or do you think actually…
[00:25:20.780] – Rob Jolly
So yes, I think most of our customers probably already have these features because our cars access the mobile app, you don’t get a physical key. You can schedule on some of the cars already smart charging and most charges in the UK are in terms of getting the government grant, I think they have to be a connected charger. So, I think already it is not something we actively are making sure 100 per cent it has to be that, that is naturally kind of happening already.
[00:25:54.410] – Jon Slowe
Yeah, Philipp, how about yourself. In terms of dynamic tariffs or smart charging or in Germany, for example, there's a lot of thought of a volter…. so you can encourage more self-consumption of the electricity produced from volter….
[00:26:11.290] – Philipp Maul
So smart charging by itself is a great concept and I think it will help in the long run but it needs to be tackled on a global or at least on a European scale because what we don't want is actually having something put in front of the customer that actually doesn't benefit the customer. So smart charging on paper sounds really nice and we definitely encourage our customers to take part in it and also actually working ourselves towards it. But if it's not working on a global scale and there is not a critical mass for it.
[00:26:54.900] – Philipp Maul
We will not roll it out because it won't benefit our customers. And vehicle to grids is on paper a great idea but as long as every parking spot isn't basically connected to the grid.
[00:27:09.660] – Philipp Maul
It might not work out in the long run.
Jon Slowe - And as you roll out to more countries Philipp, how you develop the propositions, how you market, how you position your brand. You've already explained how that will be quite country-specific. Are you looking for as much standardisation behind all the other aspects as you can, so you can really scale this across several countries?
[00:27:37.180] – Philipp Maul
Obviously, so the backbone needs to be needs to be the same in all countries. It needs to be the same basic offering that we roll out with the same toolset behind it. Otherwise, it becomes less scalable. So, that needs to be needs to be the same everywhere. And apart from that, every feature that we add needs to be available in all countries ideally as well.
[00:28:03.640] – Jon Slowe
Yeah okay. Now before we bring out the talking new energy crystal ball, I'd like to ask each of you, Philipp Rob and Abhishek, for, well Philipp and Rob.
[00:28:17.960] – Jon Slowe
One, the biggest thing that you've learned from customers since you launched, or you started or set up. So maybe the biggest thing that surprised you most about your customers and Abhishek from looking across the sector as people move into the subscription models an observation form you about what one of the biggest learnings has been in the last years. Philipp let's start with you and then Rob and then Abhishek.
[00:28:48.790] – Philipp Maul
So I mean there's a couple of things that we've learned from our customers but basically the main thing that we've learned is that they actually want end to end solutions and that if they are done correctly and they actually serve the purpose they want them for, that they are happy to actually help you grow your business.
[00:29:18.720] – Philipp Maul
So, they actually fully want to take a part in developing the company with their feedback, with their input with what they see on the road. So, they don't only become advocates, but they actually also become a major stakeholder in your brand and your company by their by giving their feedback by giving their input.
[00:29:38.460] – Jon Slowe
Okay, that sounds very powerful. Rob how about yourself, your biggest or most surprising learnings from your customers?
[00:29:46.580] – Rob Jolly
Yeah, it's probably in a similar vein. Actually, what we found is that most customers come in under the assumption that they'll use it for a couple of months to figure out they want an electric car. And what we're finding is customers generally then stay after that point and we're pretty much finding no customers are leaving our service because they want to go back into a petrol and diesel car because they can't make electric work for them. So, I think we were pretty confident that EVs suited the mass market. Yeah, that's probably the thing that surprised us most, that there’s not more customers who actually go you know what the hundred- and fifty-miles range that I've got.
[00:30:27.200] – Rob Jolly
I can't make work, customers are seeming to be quite happy to adapt and coping fine with electric cars.
[00:30:37.090] – Jon Slowe
Okay, and Abhishek how about yourself looking across the sector.
[00:30:41.480] – Abhishek Sampat
Well, I think echoing what Rob just said that people tend to adapt to the EV lifestyle as soon as they start driving one and going back to something Rob said at the very beginning which is when he drove them for the first time when he was at JLR, they're actually really good fun to drive. The other thing, it's quite nice to see companies trying to move into the space with a disruptive approach to vehicle access different to the traditional leasing, different to the traditional renting. And I guess it gives you flexibility as well.
[00:31:15.350] – Abhishek Sampat
Looking I mean, looking specifically at Evezy, it gives you the option to swap cars on a monthly basis which is quite handy for different uses. It's almost like the mobile phone access subscription except you can swap your device which is new for a much larger physical item which has bigger capital. So, it's a change and I can see more people wanting to do it. To use this sort of service to get into it they're probably not want to leave it so accessible. And I guess that's what both companies are trying to do.
[00:31:51.530] – Abhishek Sampat
[00:31:53.000] – Jon Slowe
Yeah. And certainly, thinking of my own situation. I live in Glasgow unfortunately not in one of your countries Philipp and Rob I don't think you’re yet to reach Glasgow but when you do, I think for me it will be a very attractive way of taking that step. Okay let's get out the talking you energy crystal ball now and this week will set the dial to 2030 and I'd like to ask each of you, what proportion of drivers will be driving on subscription packages like the ones you offer. So, driving an electric vehicle on subscription packages like the ones you offer and you can answer for the UK Rob, for Europe as a whole.
[00:32:38.160] – Jon Slowe
Abhishek and Philipp or just one country. So, Philipp let's start with you. Where would you put the percentage or proportion of drivers driving on your subscription type offer?
[00:32:51.960] – Philipp Maul
So, a subscription by itself will probably be a little bit hard because I guess until 2030 subscription by itself will change completely. We will change what we offer and the environment around us will change.
[00:33:05.100] – Philipp Maul
So, I'll go out on a limb and say that 50 per cent of people in Europe will not own their own car which means basically buying or leasing it.
[00:33:19.190] – Philipp Maul
But it might be a subscription or something else.
Jon Slowe - Yes so, a subscription or shared.
Philipp Maul - But we don't know yet. And potentially globally it will be more than 50 per cent.
[00:33:30.120] – Jon Slowe
Yeah okay, so, very significant.
[00:33:32.400] – Jon Slowe
Rob, how about yourself?
Rob Jolly – Yeah, I think that the key thing to remember is that already in the U.K. 90 per cent of customers buy a car through a finance deal and only 70 per cent of their customers actually own the car at the end. So, I'm going to be controversial and say that the majority of customers already drive in subscription vehicle and they just don't realise that. So, I do think that the monthly subscription rather than the being locked in for a number of years will take because in our eyes it’s a bit of a no brainer.
[00:34:06.440] – Rob Jolly
So, I think probably similar numbers to what Philipp said. Yeah. And I think it obviously depends on the uptake of electric vehicles. And the biggest kind of factors in whether the car manufacturers move as quickly as they need to and can get the profit margins to mean they move quickly is that they need to actually, keep up with customer demand because we've seen in the UK last month 10 per cent of all new car sales are electric vehicles so the tide is turning very quickly and I think the tide will turn very quickly to subscription to.
[00:34:41.390] – Jon Slowe
Yeah okay. So, we're maybe at two tipping points towards electrification and subscription. And lastly Abhishek where would you set the percentage for 2030.
[00:34:51.430] – Abhishek Sampat
I would give a very specific answer of 46 per cent just because I think that's mostly because I can see more people wanting to use a subscription service like we've just discussed with the EVs in Juicar, there will still be a population that cannot access the cars because of where they live. So, they would probably go for a traditional lease or an outright buy because there'll always be that market. But I can see a large proportion of vehicle users which doesn't mean vehicle buyers, being in some of the larger cities where they just share cars instead of subscribing to them or lease them.
[00:35:28.750] – Jon Slowe
Okay so similar points to Philipp.
[00:35:31.920] – Jon Slowe
That we’ll see subscription, shared and all of you are very clear and I’d agree with you a big decline in the traditional lease or traditional ownership as you say Abhishek that might disappear completely.
Abhishek Sampat - Yeah and lots of new cars.
Jon Slowe - Yeah okay. So, we've run out of time so that's it for today.
[00:35:52.210] – Jon Slowe
Thanks for listening and we hope you enjoyed the episode. Thanks very much to my three guests. Thank you, Philipp.
[00:36:01.810] – Philipp Maul
Thank you, thanks nice to be there.
Jon Slowe – Thank you, Rob.
Rob Jolly - Thanks. Good to speak to you.
[00:36:07.990] – Jon Slowe
Thank you, Abhishek.
Abhishek Sampat - No problem, good to speak to you both Philipp and Rob. So, we'll be back with talking energy next week with our next episode.
[00:36:19.480] – Jon Slowe
Thanks again for listening and goodbye.